Page 39 - NKHR Hawaii Conference 2023

DR. STEPHEN NOERPER

Ambassador Lee, let’s talk about information and how we better access and learn from
North Koreans.

AMBASSADOR SHIN WHA LEE
When it comes to information, there are two factors. We have to create an inflow of
information so that North Korean people know what is going on around the world, and
also they have to compare how they are situated with the rest of the world.

But that part is probably not your question. How can we know about North Korea which
is known as a “black box”? As you well know, the majority of the cases will depend on the
North Korean escapees’ accounts. T at was possible somewhat because there were at least
2,000-3,000 escapees annually who came to South Korea right before Kim Jong Il died.

But when Kim Jong Un came to power, he made strict measures to control those people
so that the number of escapees was cut in half. And then COVID-19 was a big blow, so
that over the last couple of years only just over 60 new defectors came to South Korea.

T ose defectors are escapees whom I met and those who have come to South Korea over
the last couple of years, but they are not new defections from North Korea. T ey have
already been outside North Korea, mainly in China, Russia, and to some extent Laos. So I
deeply admire several NGOs’ ef orts to rescue those refugees and I think they are valuable
informants for us to talk to about what was going on in North Korea. But still, as far as
I understand, because I haven’t been with the North defectors except here and there over
the past one and a half years, I recognize the nature of what we can call North Korean
escapees is greatly changing. What I am saying is most of them have not come directly
from North Korea but they have already been in China and other places for more than
three or f ve years and sometimes twenty years.

One more thing is very important to understand. Many of them are children of North
Korean women. More than 80% of them were Chinese-born, Chinese nationals who just
have a Korean mother. So how we deal with those people is a very important task for North
Korea. Unfortunately, depending on North Korean escapee accounts is not enough anymore.
T erefore, what I am trying to do is to try to f gure out more information through satellite
imagery account or analysis to see what is happening in North Korea. T ose things are for
now the meager means we have to get access to North Korean escapees.

NORTH KOREAN HUMAN RIGHTS HAWAII CONFERENCE 2023 39