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survive on that gig, I had to lean into a style of playing that I grew up with. I had to ask myself what

is it that I can bring to the table that is the realm of Richie Havens that maybe no other musician
can do? No other guitar player and I kind of dug deep into my playing style and I started
experimenting with this banjo fingerpicking style that I had begun to learn in Nashville and earlier
in Florida when I was
growing up and I found that

it mixed with really well
and did not compete with
Richie’s picking, strumming
style. Richie had this
galloping strumming style.
Very aggressive galloping.

I want to be clear — it’s a
galloping, like dun tik a tak,
tik a tak, tik a tak, tik a tak.
Here comes the sun, dun tik
a tak. Everything has got
that horse like gallop to it
Richie Havens with Walter Parks (g, left) & Stephanie Winters(c, right) and then along comes me

with this banjo picking style,
arpeggio style, fingerstyle. It’s called fingerpicking style and it wove in there with his galloping
style and so, Ian, the long answer — once again, I’m sorry I’m a little long-winded, but I get excited
about talking about this stuff, but in order to survive in that moment, I dug into my own roots, and
it saved me. It enabled me to hold onto that gig. This is where I’m leading up to the “Swamp

Cabbage” thing and I realised, whoa. For all of this time supporting Richie and my job essentially is
to not stand out. If you’re a good side person, you’re supporting the person who’s hired you. You’re
supporting the bandleader and you will keep that gig as long as you don’t stand out too much.

In the music industry, we learned that about Jimi Hendrix. He was very flamboyant with the Isley
Brothers and Little Richard and so on and excuse me, I think it was just Little Richard. I don’t know
if he played with the Isley Brothers, I think that’s wrong. But anyway, whoever he played with,

Hendrix would often get called down or called out because he was standing out too much. He was
making too much theatre of himself and so that’s kind of an infamous example there. My point is I
realised that what’s happening to me is I’m resting more and more into the shadows in order to be a
good side person to Richie and that was fine and I loved doing that for Richie, but on the off-hours,
in between gigs or let’s say we would be playing at the Jazz Café in Camden, all day long instead of
going to the British Museum, I would be in my hotel working on my own music that was my own
style. I wrote all of the “Swamp Cabbage” music that was in the style of where I grew up in. I was

taking old black music that I heard in north Florida and combining it with some of that banjo
picking style that I had, and I wrote most of that on the road with Richie on my days off. Just trying,
almost desperately, to hold onto whatever style that I had that was inherent in me. So, again a long
answer, but I hope you’re appreciating that I have a passion for these things.

BiTS: Am I right in thinking your current band, “The Unlawful Assembly”, is a kind of extension of
"Swamp Cabbage"?