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did everything right. They were very sharp, but fundamentally they didn't really
know how to maneuver in the culture, and they suffered.

Ivan: Would you say though that, I guess what I was getting at, is because you had

already been successful in high school and in college dealing in a majority white
environment, that it probably give you a leg up over somebody who didn't have
a similar experience?

Bill: Oh, I think so. I think it really did. Because a couple of things; you learn the
morays of whites and also you have shown that you can be successful in
basically, a white arena. So there’s a level of confidence you come out with. And
also in the process you learn of white attitudes…what motivates whites, so….

Ivan: Ok.

Bill: I think that it’s a distinct advantage to go to a majority white or an integrated

situation, then you are going to move into an integrated society, which, America
is.

Ivan: Right. I agree. I just I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I mean when I
just look back over my career, you know, that's what I saw. People that
unfortunately, you know, we tout the HBCUs, and I don't think that's a mistake,
but what I saw when they came into majority white culture was that they
struggled, you know.

Ivan: Now that was my last question and I've gone probably a bit over the 15 minutes
that I promised, but is there anything else that you can think of that you want to

comment on or since you wrote your survey responses… Is there anything else
that you feel like you might want to comment on?

Bill: A friend of mine who went to Selma after I did, and they had had only one black
in the training. They petitioned and got the situation where they would no
longer send only one black to pilot training in Selma.

Ivan: Oh wow.

Bill: They send two or more.

Ivan: So do you think that was kind of like the unwritten rule, can only have one at a
time?

Bill: We don’t know if it was an unwritten rule or not, maybe just where the chips
fell. But once you get down there and you are the only one, it’s a stark reality.
And it’s a little bit easier to flunk one person out; because you have no one to