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FACE TO FACE | EASTERN HORIZON 17

In what ways does Zen share a commonality with
Chinese Ch’an and Korean Sŏn practice? Or are they
distinctly different?

My familiarity with the forms of Ch’an and Sŏn is
minimal. I would say that in terms of the fundamental
teachings and practice, we share the same ground, but
my understanding is that the forms, the liturgy, etc.,
are different—which makes sense, given that each of
these took shape in a different culture. Zen in the West
has also developed its own forms and hopefully it will
continue to do so. This adaptability is what ensures its
relevance and enduring power.

The term zazen means meditation. What is the
ultimate aim of Zazen in Zen practice?
marriages, naming ceremonies, funerals, giving of the
precepts, etc, while monastics are not. All our priests are I hesitate to use the term “ultimate” because it feeds into
monastics but the opposite is not true. our desire to transcend—transcend our humanity, our
suffering, the everyday struggles that make a human
As for vegetarianism and celibacy, our monastery life. I prefer to use very simple terms that demistify
served vegetarian meals exclusively (with vegan the practice and even the insights we gain along the
alternatives) but vegetarianism was not required. way. One way I like to describe the purpose of Zen
A number of the monastics are not vegetarian, and and of Buddhism in general is to be close. To be close
neither am I. It’s seen as a personal choice. The same to yourself, to others, to reality. In other words, to
with celibacy. Monastics can choose to be in stable, see that closeness—let’s use Thich Nhat Hanh’s term,
monogamous relationships, or they can be celibate, but interbeing—is the nature of all things.
it’s not required for ordination.
We usually associate zazen with the study of kōan.
You belong to the Mountains and Rivers Order Can you explain what is a kōan and what’s the
of Zen Buddhism, founded by John Daido Loori purpose of meditating on kōan?
Roshi in 1980 in New York. This reminds me of
the old Zen saying: “In the beginning, mountains A kōan or “public case” is a record, most often of a
are mountains and rivers are rivers; later on, dialogue between two monastics and on occasion, a
mountains are not mountains and rivers are not line or lines from a sutra, that presents the meditator
rivers; and still later, mountains are mountains and with a question or conundrum that points directly
rivers are rivers.” Perhaps you could explain the to the nature of reality. The purpose of sitting with a
meaning of these sayings? kōan is to go beyond the intellect and to directly see
“the way things are,” as one of the sutras describes the
I should clarify that I am now teaching independently Buddha’s enlightenment.
and am no longer a formal member of the MRO. But
this saying is one that my teacher really loved. But to be Then there’s the other method called shikantaza
honest, I don’t want to explain it. That will kill it. Let’s which we tend to think of as a meditative approach
just say it has to do with different ways of seeing and where the mind has no object at all. Could you
understanding reality. clarify what is shikantaza?