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suffering, and empower him to make a change in his life. use the word ‘monk’ as gender-neutral, and then specify
As the Buddha says, whatever is not ours, we should whether one is a male or female monk when needed—
abandon it—that will be for our long-lasting benefit. no different than how one would use words like doctor,
artist, punk, etc.
You co-founded Empty Cloud Monastery in New York
as a gender inclusive monastery. Can you explain Lastly, having a gender inclusive space has meant also
what is meant by this term and how is it different having equal access to teachings from senior monastics,
from other Buddhist monasteries? regardless of gender, which has been of incredible

benefit for the entire community.
The core teachings of the Buddha revolve around anattā,
which underlies the impersonality and insubstantiality of It is wonderful to know Empty Cloud Monastery
all things and identities. In order to attain awakening we welcomed monastics from all traditions. As each
need to identify and transcend any ‘attā’ (self-identity) Buddhist tradition is unique in itself, how should we
we hold - such as identification with any aspect of our study and practice the Dharma in a non-sectarian
body, our mind, our emotions, even our most subtle sense and ecumenical way?
of self-existence. We need suitable conditions to do this
work, and as a female practitioner I have often felt that In the Suttas the Buddha says that whether there is a
these conditions were lacking, and that this lack was Buddha in this world or not, the Dhamma remains the
very detrimental to my practice and the practice of many same. The Dhamma is the truth, it’s a natural law, the
others. Especially in monastic environments there is way things are. The Buddha didn’t invent the Dhamma,
often an excessive emphasis on gender, which, instead of he discovered it. This means that our job is to study the
empowering us to transcend identification with gender, Dhamma, and then look for the Dhamma everywhere,
solidifies it even more. investigate it in our hearts and minds, question
our understanding of it, let go of our intellectual
When one reads the scriptures, the feeling is completely knowledge of the Dhamma, and pursue the realization,
the opposite, especially when one looks at the oldest and direct knowing of this Dhamma. At Empty Cloud
strata of the texts. Instead of obsessing about gender, Monastery we are interested in doing precisely this, but
the Buddha instead emphasized that “the body is not in order to understand and practice what the Buddha
self” and that one’s gender does not affect one’s ability really taught and realize the Dhamma we cannot
to attain awakening. He freely taught both women and rely solely on books, nor rely only on one lineage or
men, ordained both women and men, led monastic one teacher. Instead, we constantly put ourselves in
communities of both women and men, and guided dialogue with others to question ourselves, and see if
both women and men to full awakening, without any we are missing something in our practice. Not holding
distinction or separation between them. to fixed views, taking inspiration from others, and
looking at how the Dhamma can manifest differently,
We - me, Bhante Suddhāso, as well as many other monks or be spoken about in different terms, is the biggest
and lay practitioners, felt that gender segregation was teaching that we can learn from fellow Buddhists. After
not supportive of our practice. Therefore, we decided all, as the Buddha said, the Dhamma is like the water of
to start a gender inclusive monastery. This essentially the ocean: no matter where it is coming from, it all has
means that gender/sex are treated as characteristics the same taste: the taste of liberation.
no different and no more important than any other
physical characteristic - such as the color of one’s When you teach lay people in the Dharma, what is
eyes, the size of one’s body, or one’s nationality. For your main advice to them in terms of their study and
example, at Empty Cloud we don’t divide people in the practice so that they have a strong foundation in the
meditation hall into separate groups based on gender. Buddha’s teachings?
Additionally, we do not use the word ‘nun’; instead, we